You were mostly right up until you had to take a swipe and denigrate the efforts of ICE. (Are you just trying to look even handed by giving acknowledging their faux arguments? Why the need to ingratiate yourself with these vile creatures?) ICE is already under great scrutiny as it is. From people whose only purpose is sabotage, not protect civil liberties.
As I note below, all I did was note that there are legitimate criticisms/concerns. American citizens have been arrested and detained for days. No one should be OK with that.
The FACE Act angle is clever. Using legislation originally designed to protect clinic access against disruption to protect church services shows how universal principles of non-interference can apply across different contexts. The irony of potentially prosecuting under the Ku Klux Klan Act is striking. One question though, how much does selective enforcement undermine the legitimacy of applying these laws only when it aligns with current political priorities?
As I recall, they added specific language re religious services in order to get it passed.
As for selective enforcement? Selective enforcement has *always* been part of the landscape, from the top of the food chain down to the lowest levels of crime. Sometimes, it's political, sometimes it's practical, sometimes it's compassionate. "Legitimacy" is whatever the voters decide.
Just to clarify a point, and by no means does this justify it, one of the pastors at the church is the ICE Director for St Paul (an office job that’s been held for years), but he wasn’t the pastor who was conducting the service. He wasn’t present. However the protesters knew this as well, and it didn’t stop them - because guilt by association is the hallmark of socialist revolutionaries.
SIDE NOTE: as of last night Nekima Levy Armstrong, . Chauntyll Louisa Allen, and William Kelly, were arrested. The FACE act, the KKK act, and 1a violations were cited.
(On the whole, well said... but i too take issue with the assessment regarding ICE. The left might wish it, but the facts lie much farther to the right)
----------------------------------
Marley was Dead to begin with.... an introduction deft, swift, and unerring. (so let us steal it)
[ everlasting apologies to C. Dickens]
Chaos; their Mantra to begin with, there is no doubt whatever about that. The MSM bile, dripping; has been approved by the Woke, given assent by Mn. Govt Corrupt, the undertakers of truth, and the chief mourners; 'Lundists' all. And Wal-elli-frey its name scribbled in blood was 'good' upon change for anything they chose to put a hand to.
Truth was as dead as a door-nail, and the fire burned bright beneath it.
These cretins perceive no DOWNSIDE to their actions, as long as it slays it plays. They'd gladly toss a thousand souls (Lumpenprole & unfortunate) on their bonfires. And weep unconvincingly for the press and sycophants (like Lemon). While simultaneously carrying out violations of multiple civil rights laws, askance for their own jailing, gleefully sure they can dodge it for a bit more.
Its a matter of advantage that those still inured with the 'process' of justice proceed to address the 1st of injustices while such as Armstrong & Kelly have carried out many related actions.
The pressure on the right & center, edges everyone close to much more immediate action, again this plays to the hands of Chaos. Heaven forbid these spawn decide to engage churches with trained security; especially those who've experienced or share some relationship with churches already 'physically attacked'. The lefts escalation fantasies combined with Mn. hobbled LEO is to author a disaster, claim innocence , bait-switch; as they heinously (criminally) don't care. And they are naive, to what will really happen.
But its screentime for the left, and they don't care who is ground up along the way.
Fine: your response that caught attention (I will speak for my thought, not the other person)
What did I write, other than that there are legitimate and significant criticisms to be leveled?
They have arrested and detained American citizens, sometimes for days.
------------------------------
There is a notable difference between ‘...legitimate and significant criticism’ –vs--
“deserving of much criticism, and there are too many reported instances...”
---------------
The full statement in question from your well written OP, with exception to the ICE comment:
While the ICE actions are deserving of much criticism, and there are too many reported instances of rights-violations, the behavior of the Soros-funded protestors is wrong.
-----
(original page+1/2 removed)
May there be some issues with overtaxed, attacked, abused LEOs, how could there not be even the most minute of statistical grounds with 10+M illegals.
Is the lefts tactic always ‘send back 100,000 yd of linen for 0.05cm corner mark’
On todays stage, otherwise pointed conversation openers, are now merely fuel to the fire the left fans.
The once credible news sources are ‘stooges’ at best, research popped up 2 sources as credible so far: ACLU & Propublica, who both stink in the fine print of bias & coercion.
-----
Perhaps a few weeks of getting an unbiased accounting would serve discussion, but nothing will reduce the knee-jerk bile of the left, and many Americans are fresh out of bubble gum.
Remember, I'm a libertarian, and we have had (IMO well-deserved) skepticism re law enforcement - and especially militarization of law enforcement - for decades. It may be that my tolerance level for bad individual instances is much lower than yours.
Yes, it's a tough job, and yes, the Left's antics make it tougher. Doesn't mean we should accept more injustices than we might otherwise.
As for credibility, I tend to trust Reason's reporting on the matter.
For the most part Sir, we are in complete agreement. Thank you.
We should be prepared for abuse of such absolute powers.
Perhaps 'faith in the better angels' of the system, given the crimes of the last few administrations, should be more skeptical. But hope springs eternal that we'll embrace a few altruistic tenets.
Hope gets 20%satisfaction------80%despair.
The left would set themselves on fire if they could land a blow against the right. What an image:
"I'm ablaze, but see by my actions, what it reveals of the right"..headshake
Thanks for the pointer, i've also been using GROUND news, but its hard to amass a good index easily . Oh for the coming days of personal LLMs to harness and index multiple sources.
"Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins" - attribution is imprecise. But the general understanding is exercising YOUR right doesn't entitle you to violate the rights of another.
You were mostly right up until you had to take a swipe and denigrate the efforts of ICE. (Are you just trying to look even handed by giving acknowledging their faux arguments? Why the need to ingratiate yourself with these vile creatures?) ICE is already under great scrutiny as it is. From people whose only purpose is sabotage, not protect civil liberties.
As I note below, all I did was note that there are legitimate criticisms/concerns. American citizens have been arrested and detained for days. No one should be OK with that.
The FACE Act angle is clever. Using legislation originally designed to protect clinic access against disruption to protect church services shows how universal principles of non-interference can apply across different contexts. The irony of potentially prosecuting under the Ku Klux Klan Act is striking. One question though, how much does selective enforcement undermine the legitimacy of applying these laws only when it aligns with current political priorities?
As I recall, they added specific language re religious services in order to get it passed.
As for selective enforcement? Selective enforcement has *always* been part of the landscape, from the top of the food chain down to the lowest levels of crime. Sometimes, it's political, sometimes it's practical, sometimes it's compassionate. "Legitimacy" is whatever the voters decide.
Just to clarify a point, and by no means does this justify it, one of the pastors at the church is the ICE Director for St Paul (an office job that’s been held for years), but he wasn’t the pastor who was conducting the service. He wasn’t present. However the protesters knew this as well, and it didn’t stop them - because guilt by association is the hallmark of socialist revolutionaries.
SIDE NOTE: as of last night Nekima Levy Armstrong, . Chauntyll Louisa Allen, and William Kelly, were arrested. The FACE act, the KKK act, and 1a violations were cited.
(On the whole, well said... but i too take issue with the assessment regarding ICE. The left might wish it, but the facts lie much farther to the right)
----------------------------------
Marley was Dead to begin with.... an introduction deft, swift, and unerring. (so let us steal it)
[ everlasting apologies to C. Dickens]
Chaos; their Mantra to begin with, there is no doubt whatever about that. The MSM bile, dripping; has been approved by the Woke, given assent by Mn. Govt Corrupt, the undertakers of truth, and the chief mourners; 'Lundists' all. And Wal-elli-frey its name scribbled in blood was 'good' upon change for anything they chose to put a hand to.
Truth was as dead as a door-nail, and the fire burned bright beneath it.
---------------------------------------------------------------
These cretins perceive no DOWNSIDE to their actions, as long as it slays it plays. They'd gladly toss a thousand souls (Lumpenprole & unfortunate) on their bonfires. And weep unconvincingly for the press and sycophants (like Lemon). While simultaneously carrying out violations of multiple civil rights laws, askance for their own jailing, gleefully sure they can dodge it for a bit more.
Its a matter of advantage that those still inured with the 'process' of justice proceed to address the 1st of injustices while such as Armstrong & Kelly have carried out many related actions.
The pressure on the right & center, edges everyone close to much more immediate action, again this plays to the hands of Chaos. Heaven forbid these spawn decide to engage churches with trained security; especially those who've experienced or share some relationship with churches already 'physically attacked'. The lefts escalation fantasies combined with Mn. hobbled LEO is to author a disaster, claim innocence , bait-switch; as they heinously (criminally) don't care. And they are naive, to what will really happen.
But its screentime for the left, and they don't care who is ground up along the way.
What did I write, other than that there are legitimate and significant criticisms to be leveled?
They have arrested and detained American citizens, sometimes for days.
Fine: your response that caught attention (I will speak for my thought, not the other person)
What did I write, other than that there are legitimate and significant criticisms to be leveled?
They have arrested and detained American citizens, sometimes for days.
------------------------------
There is a notable difference between ‘...legitimate and significant criticism’ –vs--
“deserving of much criticism, and there are too many reported instances...”
---------------
The full statement in question from your well written OP, with exception to the ICE comment:
While the ICE actions are deserving of much criticism, and there are too many reported instances of rights-violations, the behavior of the Soros-funded protestors is wrong.
-----
(original page+1/2 removed)
May there be some issues with overtaxed, attacked, abused LEOs, how could there not be even the most minute of statistical grounds with 10+M illegals.
Is the lefts tactic always ‘send back 100,000 yd of linen for 0.05cm corner mark’
On todays stage, otherwise pointed conversation openers, are now merely fuel to the fire the left fans.
The once credible news sources are ‘stooges’ at best, research popped up 2 sources as credible so far: ACLU & Propublica, who both stink in the fine print of bias & coercion.
-----
Perhaps a few weeks of getting an unbiased accounting would serve discussion, but nothing will reduce the knee-jerk bile of the left, and many Americans are fresh out of bubble gum.
Remember, I'm a libertarian, and we have had (IMO well-deserved) skepticism re law enforcement - and especially militarization of law enforcement - for decades. It may be that my tolerance level for bad individual instances is much lower than yours.
Yes, it's a tough job, and yes, the Left's antics make it tougher. Doesn't mean we should accept more injustices than we might otherwise.
As for credibility, I tend to trust Reason's reporting on the matter.
For the most part Sir, we are in complete agreement. Thank you.
We should be prepared for abuse of such absolute powers.
Perhaps 'faith in the better angels' of the system, given the crimes of the last few administrations, should be more skeptical. But hope springs eternal that we'll embrace a few altruistic tenets.
Hope gets 20%satisfaction------80%despair.
The left would set themselves on fire if they could land a blow against the right. What an image:
"I'm ablaze, but see by my actions, what it reveals of the right"..headshake
Thanks for the pointer, i've also been using GROUND news, but its hard to amass a good index easily . Oh for the coming days of personal LLMs to harness and index multiple sources.
"Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins" - attribution is imprecise. But the general understanding is exercising YOUR right doesn't entitle you to violate the rights of another.
"Human stain" stealing that. The man recorded his crime and admitted to it, yet no indictment. He's a "journalist". He's also a clown.