We once had an organization called the INS that granted green card residency to one of the most dangerous international terrorists in history. see where I'm going ...
I do not have access to the Sam Harris quote saying “all is fair” in denying Trump a second term, but I’ll take your word that he said it. I’d say that is going too far, because it would include assassination, deliberate election fraud, or Biden imposing martial law and suspending the 2024 election, or declaring nuclear war on someone, all of which I would oppose.
Your assertion that the raid on Mar-a-Lago might expose proof that Trump premeditated the storming of the Capitol and that his base should leave him if such proof surfaced is really unrealistic. Ample evidence already exists and doesn’t bother his base one bit. We have testimony under oath from a former (and maybe current) Trump-supporter that Trump was informed that much of the mob was armed and told them to march to the Capitol anyway, pretty much everyone who stormed the Capitol said they believed that they were following his orders and when he told them to leave they dispersed immediately. He watched them break into the Capitol on TV, knowing full well that the lives of politicians and particularly Pence were endangered, and rather than telling them to leave, tweeted his disappointment with Pence, endangering him more. People in the White House testified under oath that they told Trump that Pence’s life was in danger and his response was that Pence had it coming.
You say that Trump’s first term was “rather pedestrian” but the way he left office was not — it was not a peaceful transfer of power: 140 cops were injured and one person was shot dead. And it was sheer luck that the mob never came within line of sight of the politicians. They came within 40 feet of Pence. It is probable that a lot of the Capitol rioters were packing heat under their winter coats, which they never drew because they never came within line of sight of anyone they wanted to kill.
A Trump second term would be absolutely guaranteed not to end in a peaceful transfer of power. There is a whole media ecosystem whose sole purpose is to back up any lie Trump tells, however preposterous. Trump’s 2024 running mate is absolutely positively guaranteed to be of the opinion that Pence did the wrong thing on Jan 6th. If the Republican candidate does not win in 2028, Trump’s VP is guaranteed to dismiss slates of electors he doesn’t like on ridiculous pretenses, and accept illegally assembled slates of electors he likes on equally ridiculous pretenses.
So a Trump victory in 2024 could mean a complete end of democratic control of the the executive branch, an end to the republic until the government is violently overthrown.
So Trump really is a threat to the republic. I think if he could be convicted of any law, including one that is not normally vigiorously enforced, and giving him the maximum sentence, would be justified. He’ll be too old to pose a continued threat in a few years.
During prohibition, we convicted Al Capone of tax evasion, and sent him to Alcatraz for life, and didn’t release him when prohibition was repealed. I’m confident that other people convicted of tax evasion were treated far less harshly. What threat did Capone pose, especially after prohibition was repealed? He killed people, but only a few. He posed no threat to the republic or democracy.
I anticipate that his base would shrink if truly damning evidence emerges. But, it’d have to be blatant and undeniable, given how much BS has happened.
I also don’t believe they will find any such evidence, but that’s just my conjecture rather than a wait and see.
Trump didn’t try to quash the riot, and I blasted him for that failure on January 7. I think he loved it, and his die hards love that he loved it.
But back to the point. If they don’t find such pre-riot incrimination, this will only help him.
I'm no lawyer, but it's pretty clear that mishandling of classified docs and espionage are totally different. The government would have to show that Trump provided such to hostiles. Is there a basis for that other than supposition?
The other reason for the raid was to secure documents which Trump had declassified regarding the Russia hoax. The FBI does not accept that declassification and certainly doesn't want those documents in Trump's hands.
We once had an organization called the INS that granted green card residency to one of the most dangerous international terrorists in history. see where I'm going ...
I do not have access to the Sam Harris quote saying “all is fair” in denying Trump a second term, but I’ll take your word that he said it. I’d say that is going too far, because it would include assassination, deliberate election fraud, or Biden imposing martial law and suspending the 2024 election, or declaring nuclear war on someone, all of which I would oppose.
Your assertion that the raid on Mar-a-Lago might expose proof that Trump premeditated the storming of the Capitol and that his base should leave him if such proof surfaced is really unrealistic. Ample evidence already exists and doesn’t bother his base one bit. We have testimony under oath from a former (and maybe current) Trump-supporter that Trump was informed that much of the mob was armed and told them to march to the Capitol anyway, pretty much everyone who stormed the Capitol said they believed that they were following his orders and when he told them to leave they dispersed immediately. He watched them break into the Capitol on TV, knowing full well that the lives of politicians and particularly Pence were endangered, and rather than telling them to leave, tweeted his disappointment with Pence, endangering him more. People in the White House testified under oath that they told Trump that Pence’s life was in danger and his response was that Pence had it coming.
You say that Trump’s first term was “rather pedestrian” but the way he left office was not — it was not a peaceful transfer of power: 140 cops were injured and one person was shot dead. And it was sheer luck that the mob never came within line of sight of the politicians. They came within 40 feet of Pence. It is probable that a lot of the Capitol rioters were packing heat under their winter coats, which they never drew because they never came within line of sight of anyone they wanted to kill.
A Trump second term would be absolutely guaranteed not to end in a peaceful transfer of power. There is a whole media ecosystem whose sole purpose is to back up any lie Trump tells, however preposterous. Trump’s 2024 running mate is absolutely positively guaranteed to be of the opinion that Pence did the wrong thing on Jan 6th. If the Republican candidate does not win in 2028, Trump’s VP is guaranteed to dismiss slates of electors he doesn’t like on ridiculous pretenses, and accept illegally assembled slates of electors he likes on equally ridiculous pretenses.
So a Trump victory in 2024 could mean a complete end of democratic control of the the executive branch, an end to the republic until the government is violently overthrown.
So Trump really is a threat to the republic. I think if he could be convicted of any law, including one that is not normally vigiorously enforced, and giving him the maximum sentence, would be justified. He’ll be too old to pose a continued threat in a few years.
During prohibition, we convicted Al Capone of tax evasion, and sent him to Alcatraz for life, and didn’t release him when prohibition was repealed. I’m confident that other people convicted of tax evasion were treated far less harshly. What threat did Capone pose, especially after prohibition was repealed? He killed people, but only a few. He posed no threat to the republic or democracy.
Sources are hyperlinked.
I anticipate that his base would shrink if truly damning evidence emerges. But, it’d have to be blatant and undeniable, given how much BS has happened.
I also don’t believe they will find any such evidence, but that’s just my conjecture rather than a wait and see.
Trump didn’t try to quash the riot, and I blasted him for that failure on January 7. I think he loved it, and his die hards love that he loved it.
But back to the point. If they don’t find such pre-riot incrimination, this will only help him.
If they do, he could very well end up in jail.
What if he’s locked up for several years without access to a cellphone or computer on espionage charges?
Please elaborate. Are you suggesting that he be tried for espionage over the mishandling of classified documents?
Yes
I'm no lawyer, but it's pretty clear that mishandling of classified docs and espionage are totally different. The government would have to show that Trump provided such to hostiles. Is there a basis for that other than supposition?
I doubt there will be any evidence he shared anything with foreign powers. What about prosecuting him on the mishandling of classified documents?
The other reason for the raid was to secure documents which Trump had declassified regarding the Russia hoax. The FBI does not accept that declassification and certainly doesn't want those documents in Trump's hands.