As some of us who play political ping-pong continue to struggle with what the West should do about Ukraine (setting aside what is actually happening and being done), I continue to look back at how things got to where they are.
There's a good bit of history where US support for NATO expansion evoked Russian aggression. That, coupled with imbecilic WASABI policies and the Nordstream pipeline, AND Biden's feckless dithering - created the perfect trigger. The common theme in all of this is the arrogance of a global elite defying reality.
If we don't take a leading role in the world then are you content with that job being taken over by other powers like Russia or China? Do you really think that Hussein would have been satisfied with Kuwait or that Putin will pull back from his plans for expansion once he has Ukraine? You're starting to really scare me.
You're applying a nirvana fallacy here, and making the exact vague fear-mongering argument I mentioned. How well has our "leading role" worked out across the past few decades? How can a nation with as much debt as ours - debt that has already devalued the dollar by over 20% - continue to play globocop?
The rest of the West is not likely to ever step up as long as we're patsies enough to go charging in as the hero of the hour (I use the term 'hero' loosely here). They'll be happy to hold our coat while sniping at how "cowboy" we are and snickering among themselves about how idiotic we are while the arms industry continues to count the money rolling in. I'm with you, Peter. Enough is enough of this horseshit.
Nirvana fallacy is your pet phrase which you use to disparage ideas which don't match up with yours. It's neither Nirvana nor a fallacy to think that other nations hostile to you will take your place if you retreat from a position of leadership or that tyrants greedy for power won't take as much as they can get until they are held in check. This is history 101. We can expect more from our allies and we should attack the debt by cutting costs and raising revenue. But, I shudder to think what life would be like if we had not taken on the leadership of the free world.
The nirvana fallacy lies in thinking that we can succeed in the future where we have so often failed in the past.
As for History 101, again, I point to the utter mess that is the Middle East, a mess due in no small part to our "leadership" and nation building efforts.
And, again, that mess led to the flood of migrants into Europe.
Do you really think that Europe will suddenly align with China, given what everyone knows about China?
Yes. I could see Europe align with China. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I don't even want to think what the world would be like in which China and Russia replace us.
I'm not nearly as concerned about the China bogeyman, and certainly not to the point where I'd prefer "more of the same" from the BidenHarris blob.
As for Russia? A podunk, failing country that has two things going for it: nukes and resources. If Europe would get its head on straight, the resources wouldn't be the leverage they are now. I actually have more faith in Trump's approach in that regard than BidenHarris.
Don’t forget that in 1953 the US engineered a coup to overthrow a secular, democratic, albeit left leaning Iranian government because it was driving a hard bargain on oil.
Of course the Shah joined OPEC and screwed us on oil prices anyway, while also suppressing democratic dissent, leaving the religious extremists to exploit popular discontent and eventually overthrow the Shah.
There's a good bit of history where US support for NATO expansion evoked Russian aggression. That, coupled with imbecilic WASABI policies and the Nordstream pipeline, AND Biden's feckless dithering - created the perfect trigger. The common theme in all of this is the arrogance of a global elite defying reality.
If we don't take a leading role in the world then are you content with that job being taken over by other powers like Russia or China? Do you really think that Hussein would have been satisfied with Kuwait or that Putin will pull back from his plans for expansion once he has Ukraine? You're starting to really scare me.
You're applying a nirvana fallacy here, and making the exact vague fear-mongering argument I mentioned. How well has our "leading role" worked out across the past few decades? How can a nation with as much debt as ours - debt that has already devalued the dollar by over 20% - continue to play globocop?
When does the rest of the West step up?
The rest of the West is not likely to ever step up as long as we're patsies enough to go charging in as the hero of the hour (I use the term 'hero' loosely here). They'll be happy to hold our coat while sniping at how "cowboy" we are and snickering among themselves about how idiotic we are while the arms industry continues to count the money rolling in. I'm with you, Peter. Enough is enough of this horseshit.
Nirvana fallacy is your pet phrase which you use to disparage ideas which don't match up with yours. It's neither Nirvana nor a fallacy to think that other nations hostile to you will take your place if you retreat from a position of leadership or that tyrants greedy for power won't take as much as they can get until they are held in check. This is history 101. We can expect more from our allies and we should attack the debt by cutting costs and raising revenue. But, I shudder to think what life would be like if we had not taken on the leadership of the free world.
The nirvana fallacy lies in thinking that we can succeed in the future where we have so often failed in the past.
As for History 101, again, I point to the utter mess that is the Middle East, a mess due in no small part to our "leadership" and nation building efforts.
And, again, that mess led to the flood of migrants into Europe.
Do you really think that Europe will suddenly align with China, given what everyone knows about China?
Yes. I could see Europe align with China. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I don't even want to think what the world would be like in which China and Russia replace us.
I'm not nearly as concerned about the China bogeyman, and certainly not to the point where I'd prefer "more of the same" from the BidenHarris blob.
As for Russia? A podunk, failing country that has two things going for it: nukes and resources. If Europe would get its head on straight, the resources wouldn't be the leverage they are now. I actually have more faith in Trump's approach in that regard than BidenHarris.
Another one hit out of the park, Peter!
Just wondering if you've read this about "the secret history of the war in Ukraine."
https://www.racket.news/p/biden-lied-about-everything-including
I did see that.
Don’t forget that in 1953 the US engineered a coup to overthrow a secular, democratic, albeit left leaning Iranian government because it was driving a hard bargain on oil.
Of course the Shah joined OPEC and screwed us on oil prices anyway, while also suppressing democratic dissent, leaving the religious extremists to exploit popular discontent and eventually overthrow the Shah.