The One Percent. The level of income that so many aspire to, and that so many love to despise. Routinely accused of everything from exploiting the masses, to pillaging the treasury, to swimming in vaults full of gold,
Being a person who is considered rich I’ve always found this highly offensive as I was willing to take risks that most are terrified of. I started a business at 27 from the proceeds of a house I had purchased after I got my first and only other job at Xerox Corp. I was one of the top 20 sales people in the entire country and was making in the low six figures at Xerox. How did that happen? I worked harder, smarter and longer hours than others were willing to do. Got to the office at 7am left at 8:30 to see clients in my territory came back to office at 5ish and knocked out proposals on manual typewriters most nights until 10pm. Went home and repeated the next day. I quit this job, sold my house and started my IT company. I blew through almost all the “house money” over 2 yrs before the company became slightly cash positive.
I worked 6.5 days a week. First in the office to open last out most days 9 at night Monday-Saturday half a day Sunday for 10+ years. In the 44 yrs I owned the company I joked that I had no real vacations because wherever I was I called in for several hours a day and in later years called and emailed. I created 100s of high paying jobs. This was my choice. Most don’t have the fortitude and tenacity it takes to absorb and keep moving forward due to the ongoing abuse one takes in creating and then profitably expanding a business. All this was my choice. I resent the jealousy of those who are unwilling to do the work and attribute my success to luck…luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity with courage. I nearly went out of business and lost everything twice. I resent the millions I paid in taxes when I sold my business because I know that money will be squandered. I resent all who are jealous of me because they lack the courage to take the risks I did throughout my career. Instead of being admired and held up as an example I am vilified by Washington’s grifting swamp creatures and the tens of millions of uneducated fools in our country.
They do this grift because they know it works. Envy sells, especially as the culture teaches away from personal responsibility and replaces it with "blame others for your plight" garbage.
You wrote: they have to admit that it's a tax. But even then, it doesn't benefit the rich any differently than anyone else. Payouts are based on contributions.
Well yes, Payouts are based on contributions, but the formula is heavily weighted such that the more you put in, the smaller percent you get back. Thus even in the SS system, the higher earners are subsidizing the payouts to the lower income earners.
I did this calculation a few years back so the cutoff $ figures might have been adjusted since then, but the declining breakdown as the amount of contribution goes up, hasn't.
SS takes the sum of your top 35 years of contributions (each year adjusted for inflation to current value)
Divides that by 420 to get your average monthly contribution.
One thing the rich get is a country in which they can make their money in which the rule of law protects them. In terms of an illustration of how things can go the other way, think of Putin's Russia where being rich doesn't protect you from a one-way trip several stories below to the ground. But, that doesn't keep some of them from doing their darndest from trying to evade paying taxes they should pay. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/tax-evasion-by-wealthiest-americans-tops-150-billion-a-year-irs.html
"according to the head of the Internal Revenue Service"
Forgive me if I don't take his word for it.
A fair bit of what's called "tax evasion" boils down to differing interpretations of the law, so I'll take such estimates with a big grain of salt. But, even if it's accurate, the fundamental unfairness of burdening a small minority with such a disproportionate tax burden remains.
David, either you repeatedly misunderstand Peter's (and mine and others' like us) point about sliding tax scales and the accusation that "the rich don't pay their fair share" or you really are a socialist at heart. First, no one is talking about not paying ANY taxes so your last comment is irrelevant. Tax evasion is, as Peter pointed out, defined by many (usually Dem socialists) as the use of legal tax shelters. That's where we get this myth that the rich don't pay their fair share because they know how to hide it. That's a crock. As for your claim the taxation rates, which are objectively disproportionate, not being disproportionate because of what people are left after paying taxes, that sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. Do you believe in a universal fixed income?? I mean, you can believe whatever you want but own your socialism if you do. Don't pretend that's anything else.
What counts is not so much the rate itself but with what you've left with after paying your taxes. That's the money we use to take care of ourselves and our families. That's the money which buys goods and services and builds our economy. That's the money which maintains our government which allows us to earn that income protected by the rule of law. How that leads to a UFI or Socialism is beyond my comprehension.
Your comment suggests otherwise. You want to justify the level of taxation based on how much people have left afterward. By that measure, it would be OK to take 100% of everything someone earns beyond some arbitrary threshold.
If that's the case, then by your view, the money I earn isn't really mine.
I have repeatedly raised the point that taxation cannot be either arbitrary or for whatever the government wants to do with it. The only legitimate form of taxation in a society where I own the fruit of my labor is to pay for services. Beyond that, or for other purposes, is immoral.
If someone who earned $4B last year paid $1B in taxes, would that be enough, or would leaving him with $3B offend you?
At one time, the idea that power tends to corrupt was a common one. Money is also a form of power and so it also tends to corrupt which explains why we have the best government money can buy. And, what do you mean by "services"? I can see that in running a business but government is not a business and its functions involve doing things which may not benefit me at all but the country as a whole. The interstate highway system comes to mind or the Louisiana purchase. The tax rate should be high enough to fund expenses. The rub lies in which expenses are legitimate or not.
My sense of fairness argues that any marginal tax rate greater than a uniform percentage tax rate that would raise the same total revenue is a “success penalty”.
Being a person who is considered rich I’ve always found this highly offensive as I was willing to take risks that most are terrified of. I started a business at 27 from the proceeds of a house I had purchased after I got my first and only other job at Xerox Corp. I was one of the top 20 sales people in the entire country and was making in the low six figures at Xerox. How did that happen? I worked harder, smarter and longer hours than others were willing to do. Got to the office at 7am left at 8:30 to see clients in my territory came back to office at 5ish and knocked out proposals on manual typewriters most nights until 10pm. Went home and repeated the next day. I quit this job, sold my house and started my IT company. I blew through almost all the “house money” over 2 yrs before the company became slightly cash positive.
I worked 6.5 days a week. First in the office to open last out most days 9 at night Monday-Saturday half a day Sunday for 10+ years. In the 44 yrs I owned the company I joked that I had no real vacations because wherever I was I called in for several hours a day and in later years called and emailed. I created 100s of high paying jobs. This was my choice. Most don’t have the fortitude and tenacity it takes to absorb and keep moving forward due to the ongoing abuse one takes in creating and then profitably expanding a business. All this was my choice. I resent the jealousy of those who are unwilling to do the work and attribute my success to luck…luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity with courage. I nearly went out of business and lost everything twice. I resent the millions I paid in taxes when I sold my business because I know that money will be squandered. I resent all who are jealous of me because they lack the courage to take the risks I did throughout my career. Instead of being admired and held up as an example I am vilified by Washington’s grifting swamp creatures and the tens of millions of uneducated fools in our country.
They do this grift because they know it works. Envy sells, especially as the culture teaches away from personal responsibility and replaces it with "blame others for your plight" garbage.
Thomas Jefferson once wrote: "I believe in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more luck I have".
Well done sir.
Exactly.
Great post as usual.
One minor issue.
You wrote: they have to admit that it's a tax. But even then, it doesn't benefit the rich any differently than anyone else. Payouts are based on contributions.
Well yes, Payouts are based on contributions, but the formula is heavily weighted such that the more you put in, the smaller percent you get back. Thus even in the SS system, the higher earners are subsidizing the payouts to the lower income earners.
I did this calculation a few years back so the cutoff $ figures might have been adjusted since then, but the declining breakdown as the amount of contribution goes up, hasn't.
SS takes the sum of your top 35 years of contributions (each year adjusted for inflation to current value)
Divides that by 420 to get your average monthly contribution.
Your payout is then
For the first $767.00 You get 90% of that.
Next up to $3,857.00 you get 32% of that
Over $3,857 You get but 15% of that.
Thus once again, the wealthy subsidize the rest.
Agreed. But, to make that point requires even finer math, and that makes many people's eyes glaze over.
Probably, just wanted to be sure you knew it since this lopsided payout isn't advertised by the SS admin.
One thing the rich get is a country in which they can make their money in which the rule of law protects them. In terms of an illustration of how things can go the other way, think of Putin's Russia where being rich doesn't protect you from a one-way trip several stories below to the ground. But, that doesn't keep some of them from doing their darndest from trying to evade paying taxes they should pay. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/22/tax-evasion-by-wealthiest-americans-tops-150-billion-a-year-irs.html
"according to the head of the Internal Revenue Service"
Forgive me if I don't take his word for it.
A fair bit of what's called "tax evasion" boils down to differing interpretations of the law, so I'll take such estimates with a big grain of salt. But, even if it's accurate, the fundamental unfairness of burdening a small minority with such a disproportionate tax burden remains.
Disproportionate in what sense? It's certainly not disproportionate in terms of comparing what people are left with after paying their taxes.
Who owns the money you earn? You or the government?
You own the money but as a citizen you also own the responsibility to pay taxes to maintain the government.
David, either you repeatedly misunderstand Peter's (and mine and others' like us) point about sliding tax scales and the accusation that "the rich don't pay their fair share" or you really are a socialist at heart. First, no one is talking about not paying ANY taxes so your last comment is irrelevant. Tax evasion is, as Peter pointed out, defined by many (usually Dem socialists) as the use of legal tax shelters. That's where we get this myth that the rich don't pay their fair share because they know how to hide it. That's a crock. As for your claim the taxation rates, which are objectively disproportionate, not being disproportionate because of what people are left after paying taxes, that sounds a hell of a lot like socialism to me. Do you believe in a universal fixed income?? I mean, you can believe whatever you want but own your socialism if you do. Don't pretend that's anything else.
What counts is not so much the rate itself but with what you've left with after paying your taxes. That's the money we use to take care of ourselves and our families. That's the money which buys goods and services and builds our economy. That's the money which maintains our government which allows us to earn that income protected by the rule of law. How that leads to a UFI or Socialism is beyond my comprehension.
Your comment suggests otherwise. You want to justify the level of taxation based on how much people have left afterward. By that measure, it would be OK to take 100% of everything someone earns beyond some arbitrary threshold.
If that's the case, then by your view, the money I earn isn't really mine.
I have repeatedly raised the point that taxation cannot be either arbitrary or for whatever the government wants to do with it. The only legitimate form of taxation in a society where I own the fruit of my labor is to pay for services. Beyond that, or for other purposes, is immoral.
If someone who earned $4B last year paid $1B in taxes, would that be enough, or would leaving him with $3B offend you?
At one time, the idea that power tends to corrupt was a common one. Money is also a form of power and so it also tends to corrupt which explains why we have the best government money can buy. And, what do you mean by "services"? I can see that in running a business but government is not a business and its functions involve doing things which may not benefit me at all but the country as a whole. The interstate highway system comes to mind or the Louisiana purchase. The tax rate should be high enough to fund expenses. The rub lies in which expenses are legitimate or not.
You are right that, with inflation, "A million bucks ain't what it used to be."
When I was a kid, a "millionaire" was Thurston Howell III. Now it's Joe Schmoe I who has faithfully fed his 401K for a couple of decades.
You are right that, with inflation, "A million bucks ain't what it used to be."
When I was a kid, a "millionaire" was Thurston Howell III. Now it's Joe Schmoe I who has faithfully fed his 401K for a couple of decades.
My sense of fairness argues that any marginal tax rate greater than a uniform percentage tax rate that would raise the same total revenue is a “success penalty”.